How to navigate dating red tape and avoid negative patterns?

How is this possible? Unless the other is just like you or similar, how do you go through all the red tape of dating or a date, then explain your situation? How can you charm that girl only to reveal a gross characteristic? I've tried. I was shunned every time in my 12 attempts with the same reactions, which is a disturbed mood-changing stiff-faced expression, then an abrupt ending or they're distant until the end of the date(s). Then I never hear from them again. The word-of-mouth thing can be a 'negative' as well. The more disgusted women I tell, 3 others will know. I don't want this negative pattern. So, tell me how a man can date a normal girl because I think that's bullshit!

Hi Dweide, I wanted to post a quick response to your question... which is a very good question. I attend a support group and a cute couple showed up to talk about ostomy living. The gentleman had the ostomy and his wife did not. If I had to guess, the couple was in their mid-late forties. I found out later in the conversation that they met online. He posted about the ostomy situation, was honest and felt if someone was interested in getting to know him, they would answer his profile. She, on the other hand, researched what an ostomy was and information about living with one. She was not put off by having an ostomy, so she responded. She said to me that everyone has something to deal with, his was an ostomy and she had her things. They got married after dating for a while, had a nice wedding, honeymooned, and have been living happily together. I hope this helps a little. Last thought... in September, the United Ostomy Association is having the national conference. Check it out on the webpage if you have a moment. I attended two years ago and it was a fun time. Take care. LH

I can't help but wonder when you are disclosing your situation? I would suggest that you wait until you have a few regular dates. Do normal, active things so your date can see that the situation doesn't affect your living a normal lifestyle. Remember, most people don't know much about an ostomy. Once you have been on 2 or 3 dates and you think you might be seriously interested in seeing that person, then you can disclose your secret. I can tell you that I have dated both ostomates and non-ostomates, and it's never been an issue for me. Good luck.

Really, what is it with the term "normal"? One definition: conforming to the standard or common type. I don't fit that and wouldn't want anyone that does. The bag didn't make me "abnormal" though; I was on that path a very long time ago. And I'm proud of it! I do get a bit upset when it seems that someone is referring to themselves as not normal because they have this bag on their belly.

Don't tell them. Unless your goal on the first date is to have sex, there's no reason to disclose anything. Even then I'm not so sure it's necessary to tell. You just pointed out it's possible to date. The difficulty seems to be keeping a girl around. I think you should not concentrate so much on the telling of what you are afraid to tell...but more so on the personality of the girl you are dating AND if she is the one you think you want to spend the rest of your life with. You will know if she's the one in time and you will feel comfortable telling her all your deep, dark secrets.

If it's just sex you're talking about. You being a guy makes it so much easier to hide that thing. Plus, there is a lot on this topic (hiding or camouflaging the bag) that will help. There was one woman on this site that claimed she had sex with a guy and he never knew she had a bag!!! My opinion on dating lacks a lot to be desired. But it is supposedly just dating...you're not making a life-long commitment. So, don't tell unless the relationship becomes serious. First make sure she is on the same page as you as to where the relationship is heading.

I didn't enclose a lot of details, but assume that I'm not an idiot and I know when to wait or when the right time is to inform someone of my condition. Assume all the basic things have already been done. Now answer my question.

Stories of Living Life to the Fullest from Ostomy Advocates I Hollister

I meant, normal date activities....out to eat, walk in the park, movies, dancing, etc...

Things that show you can lead an active lifestyle with an ostomy. Many folks think if you have an ostomy you must be restricted. I will give you an example: when I was first told I would have to have a permanent ostomy, I thought of the only person I knew who had one...a guy I went to school with. I used to see him out early mornings jogging when I was on my way to work. I thought to myself...if he can do THAT, then I can still do the things I do. He never knew but he was a big morale booster for me, he showed me that it was possible to be active.

Gee, you must be dating some really terrible women... Did you say 12?... Lol... Forget about dating... It is not working for you... Or you need a new approach... There is no normal... Women are from Venus... Men are from Mars... And a lot of them are from planets we have never heard about... Lol... Why do you have to tell them... I wonder...? Was there a motive...?

Sorry MMSH, didn't mean you, was referring to this.  

LOL, I was, LOL

I have no problem dealing with practical everyday stuff, routine, work, social life, etc....Aside from my war wounds and secondary wounds from the aftermath of my illness. My deal is that when I finally get to a point where the lady and I feel heat, she gets shut off by my situation. I don't have to reveal anything. They are going to find out once that basic human need and instinct of love and intimacy kicks in. I have yet to meet a "normal" girl who is willing to accept that. So, I must venture within women who can relate more. WHERE ARE THEY???

What foul stench,

What festering host.

What insults my breath,

And rots in my nose.

It's burning my eyes,

Cringing my face.

Lingers like fog,

Invading my taste.

Pungent and sharp,

Rusted with cheese.

Thick like Chunky,

Stuck to my teeth.

Clinging to me,

To all that's near.

It's not the cat,

Or anything here.

What is that,

Did I break wind?

Did I slip one out,

Without noticing it?

Elusive this is,

Tormenting me.

All in my mouth,

Like a farty treat.

Detective at work,

What could this be.

Unbelievable...

It's me.

Good insight. I'll try harder. :)

Hi Deide,

Sorry you have had so many difficult relationships, but that is in the past. It is time to move on. Women just want someone to be good to them. Take time to listen, leave notes, buy her flowers. Confidence is key in any relationship, especially in the beginning. Give it some time. Take it slow, and you will find there are plenty of women who don't mind if you have an ostomy.

Good luck,

Heidi

Hey Dweide, I'm told we need to feel good about ourselves if we expect others to. We need a sense of confidence and accept the possibility of rejection.  Not sure how easy it is to get there but lot's of folks are trying to help you. You must be important enough for them to care.

Wish youi the best,

Mike 

Since my divorce, my approach has always been the exact opposite. No mention at all about the ostomy during the first date or second date.

Several of my dates have resulted in a relationship and intimacy. With a tight-fitting elasticated stoma support belt around the bag - and making sure it was emptied immediately before - I managed to ignore it completely and carry on with the date as normal.

On the 2nd/3rd 'intimate' occasion, their curiosity then made them ask about the belt. No one ever mentioned it the first time. I suppose people are just too embarrassed to ask the first time with someone. I just said I had had some surgery there once, and changed the subject.

Each time the question was raised, I give a little more info about it - but only when asked. By the time I had fully explained about my ileostomy, there was no need for me to say how it doesn't affect me having a fulfilling sexual relationship, as they already knew! All of the women I have met since my divorce have been great about it. Not one ended the relationship because of the bag or thought any worse of me.

My advice is to just go for it, who dares wins, as the SAS say. OK, it can be hard the first time, but if you do, it can work out great. What's the worst thing that could happen? The bag bursting and/or being rejected? No worse than not trying in the first place. What have any of us got to lose? Be brave!

Appreciate it. :)

Hi! Dweide,

Know this is frustrating for you. Before I was well enough to return to work, a co-worker telephoned me, telling a story of her friend whose husband divorced her as soon as she was able to care for herself. Said my husband would do the same. Ignorance, ignorance!!! My husband did not treat me any differently.

Most people were surprised to learn of my ostomy. I still dressed professionally, was physically active, and lived a normal life. Thankful to God that he spared my life. It was a new, healthy life. My doctor teased me about the lovely pouch covers I wore. I made some with smiley faces embroidered on the front, colorful prints, and some to match my dresses. Anyone who cannot accept you because of an ostomy has a problem, not you. Hang in there, be happy as you are.

Forgive the long reply.

Hi,

My name is Marsha, and I'm now dating for the second time around. I had my surgery when I was 15, and dated some before marrying a guy who also had an ostomy. I was always overweight, and rather than blaming lack of dates on my ostomy back then... I blamed it on my weight issue... as it's common knowledge, most guys go for the smaller-sized gals...

I divorced about 20 years ago and have been dating since then. I met people... but for the most part, never did get into a serious relationship. I told some about my surgery... and others not. It mattered to some, ending the relationship, and didn't matter to others at all. I'm now seeing someone for more than a year, and neither my weight nor ostomy is an issue for him. He's an accepting guy. You really have to look closer at how you feel about yourself... in order to attract the kind of woman you want. I once went out with a guy I met online... I knew he was bald... but was really surprised when I met him, that he had no teeth. That was a deal breaker for me. He knew it and did something about it. He didn't have an issue with my ostomy, but in the end, we weren't a match.

Moral of the story... you have to kiss a lot of frogs (or in your case, frogetts) before you find your prince/princess. Good luck.

Dweide,

I have not posted as I am reading others' situations to see how similar or dissimilar I find them. Reading your posts on dating was good for me. I am married, and my wife accepts the way things are. However, I glean insightful information from our relationship.

If you are really interested in a long-term relationship, then you can use many avenues like dating sites, churches, social groups, and so on as a means to reach your goals. You can cut through the nonsense by being open upfront. All women have issues of their own that they deal with every day, whether they are real or fictitious. As a musician, my colostomy is not a hindrance to me or our fans. Most of the women hit on me anyway.

Be yourself and accept no less than you deserve.

Dweide,

Perhaps you are attracting the wrong women to begin with. I would look at this as a learning exercise. What do these 12 women have in common: traits, beliefs, opinions. Just try it and see if you can draw a conclusion... And exclude yourself as the common denominator.

My husband walked out on me the day I was told I was about to die if I did not have surgery. I was shattered at first because I don't see physical differences as a problem (My first job at 15 was caring for a quad...and I loved it) but over a year later and I'm thankful he left me. He was mentally abusive and physically intimidating but I didn't see it until after the fact.

I have not been brave enough to date yet but a woman with a good heart and the right intentions should not be put off by a bag.

I wish you the best!

I do think this is a good question. I had been married for 15 years before I got my bag. My husband was squeamish about changing it for me, but pitched in, took over laundry, even poopy laundry, dishes, and cooking till I got better, and still wanted to jump my bones a lot, never looked elsewhere.

It is the quality of the person, not the bag that is in your way.

Hey dweide.

I think this poem you have written in the comments here says it all. The reason girls shut you down, I mean. Poetry is an incredible way to express yourself, so props to you for being open and turning your feelings into art. However, if this is truly how you feel, which I do believe it is, how can you possibly expect a woman to accept you for who you are if you don't accept yourself? Your poem makes me frown, it's unpleasant to read, don't get me wrong, it's really well written, but gross. If you believe you are disgusting and the bag/pouch/appliance, whatever you want to call it, attached to your midsection is such a stinky, foul, festering host of a parasite, the people you tell about it will think that too. Imagine if you were the woman you were trying to date and you had no other information about ostomies and people with them other than what you were being told in that moment? If you make it a negative thing, something you're ashamed of, something to be turned off by, they more than likely will pick up on that and be turned off by it. I have an ostomy myself and am pretty darn comfortable with it and sharing with others, but the way you talk in these posts makes me feel yucky, even though I have extensive other knowledge on the topic and don't believe it's a disgusting thing myself. I know it's so much easier said than done, but maybe be open to trying to view yourself and your situation in a different light. Maybe even go on a practice date where you "reveal your big secret" in a way that doesn't actually reflect all the disgust you feel because of your "gross characteristic". Tell them you love it and it's just a part of your life and no big deal. I know this is getting long, but one more quick thing, imagine how you'd feel if a person in good health with a "normal" digestive tract (basically just a person without an ostomy) explained to you on a date about the way they poop. From their butthole. It smells so bad. Sometimes it burns, sometimes their poop is green, sometimes they get constipated and can't squeeze out the poop no matter how hard they tense... blah blah blah. Gross. Just gross. They have the "normal" you seem to seek, but honestly I'd be a little turned off by a conversation like that with a new person. Just think about it. I think you're probably a pretty cool person and you are just being held back by a negative view of your body. Buck up, little soldier. It'll be easier for someone to love you when you love yourself, even the nasty parts.

-Savannah

Yeah, so you have extensive knowledge on war in Iraq, PTSD, combat-related issues; what about dying twice?  Before you judge another's "posts", maybe you should ask questions first before you decide to give criticism.  Buck up, soldier, I just got this situation.  What do you know about "my" soldiering?  Did you know people write and read messages in whatever mood they are in?  Such a broad explanation of how my brain works.  I don't remember seeing you anywhere in Israel or Iraq or Kuwait or Germany or Ireland or on any battlefield or duty station.  How do you know how I view life?  By judging my posts instead of asking questions, you just automatically presume you are correct.  THIS IS WHY IT'S HARD TO DATE.  Too many misconceptions and judgments.  Can't I just be angry for a while, then maybe over some time I can accept it a lot better?  Do you mind if I do that?  Just understand how I feel in the situation that I present and not try to psychoanalyze my social behaviors.  BY THE WAY, I have extensive knowledge as well, a Masters in Social Economics to be exact, Miss armchair expert.  Read my other topic or any other posts.  You may find that I have no pattern in which you presume to be.  It's called I was angry.  That's it.  Now I am sad.  Maybe soon I'll be accepting more over.

Savannah, I agree, the poem is yucky. Probably would get an A in English lit for composition, etc. But the subject matter leaves much to be desired; even if it is factual. Also agree, if that is how one sees themselves it is how others will see them. I am responding here because I am hoping his rebuttal does not stop you from posting and commenting. You are a very insightful young woman and I know you meant to help.

As for you, Mr. Dweide, you are a man of two faces, as you seem to be depicting in your latest dp. And yes, I was referring to what you said about "normal women" in your original post. You implied in your first post and in a later post (even though I do not wish to have the term applied to me) that women with ostomies are not normal. I was not lecturing you, I was stating my opinion. I read how you love life and I also read how you hate it. The results from this surgery tend to send even the strongest for a loop. Savannah was making her observations based on your poem - which does not depict a happy person. You're allowed to be angry and say whatever you want. But it doesn't give you the right to jump down people's throats for stating their opinion. Because you saw active duty makes you a better person than others? Or more knowledgeable? Or we are supposed to accept what you say without feedback? Enlighten me. Did you volunteer or were you drafted? And, moreover, explain what any of that has to do with coping with an ostomy? We've all been through/are still going through that same battle. Doesn't matter what other battles we've been through or will go through in our lives. If you don't want to hear what others think - then state that in your original post. Let us know you're just venting and don't want to hear from us. When you come on a forum and say anything, you automatically open yourself up for comments and opinions. Someone with a Masters In Social Economics should understand that. Which, by the way, does not make you an expert or more knowledgeable in social or individual behaviors. Unless I am misunderstanding the term, you are educated in perceiving the ramifications of social behavior on the economic situation. That's more of a generalized way of thinking than understanding the individual and what makes them tick (or not).

Other than all that, I hope you find what you are looking for.

Hey all,

Dweide, I do apologize that my post was of no help to you and seemed to anger you. I suppose I did make judgments, but to be fair, I do not know you and all I have to go off of is your post, which was asking questions I assumed you wanted answers to. My opinion is not the law, or fact, but it's my truth, it doesn't have to be yours. I totally understand how you feel when you say "can't I just be angry for a while". Of course you can! However, I don't think you'll care that I agree with you on that, and you certainly don't need my permission to feel the way you feel. I was only trying to help, maybe bring your attention to a point you hadn't realized. I was not trying to belittle you in any way. So for that, I am sorry my post offended you.

Zywie, Thank you for the encouragement. It means a lot:) I do realize that posting online with no other background information can lead to things being misinterpreted. I had no ill intentions. I think sometimes all people need is someone to reach out to them, and just the possibility that I could've been that person makes me okay with my decision to reply. Clearly I was not, but oh well. You never know. I think a place like this should be a safe environment for people to share their journeys and feelings. So of course it doesn't feel good to read such hurtful accusations, but I misinterpreted his posts just as much as he misinterpreted mine I suppose. I was definitely not trying to judge or insinuate that I was better or knew oh so much. But it's all good, people have the right to be angry if they want to be. Really, though, I do appreciate the support and love reading what you've got to say! I can't send messages since I am not a full member, but if ever you want to talk more I'd be more than happy to listen!

I do hope today is at least bearable for you both.

-Savannah

Hi everyone, I appreciate everyone's insight too. It really helps - thank you. LH

I too have a hard time with 'normal girls'... quite frankly, I think normal is boring. I do, however, think women are special... you know, the weaker of the two sexes. We are not that hard to figure out... just always say yes. You know we're gonna change our mind in about 20 minutes... then we feel bad that you gave us our way while we were thinking selfishly... and BAM... the tables turn, and we let you have your way to somehow make us feel better about doing something nice for our man... and oh, by the way - even when we are wrong... we are 'right'... but think of the rewards... we will cook, clean, take care of the kids... just because that is what we do...

Am I crazy or way too old school?

Possibly a bit late, but as a non-ostomate who is dating a girl with an ostomy, I would just like to say that there are those of us out there that it really isn't an issue for.
I was told, I believe, before our first date... we had been chatting online for maybe 7 days before our first date... she was nervous as hell to tell me, and had been hurt before by rejection as a result of the stoma. I didn't know much about it from before, so I did some research online... reason simply being that I wanted to make sure that I didn't end up cooking something that she couldn't eat etc (like I said, really had no prior knowledge)... it never once crossed my mind once that the bag would stop me from being with her, though it crossed hers several times the first couple of months, I think even now, she at times is a bit self-conscious about it.
I love that girl so much, and I will do my best to make sure she understands how amazing she is. I also don't doubt that there is someone female out there that will do the same for you.

OMG John!! I haven't been on lately, but decided to check and SOOOO happy to see you and your girl are still going strong. HUGSSSSSSSSS!

I am all about 'telling it like it is'.............I agree with one of the comments re: you really don't have to disclose on the 1st date....however, if there is a maybe feeling of a connection and the other party says....'so tell me about yourself'......I don't hold back......I smoke pot, I drink, and I swear........if they get past my worst (in some eyes)....the rest is cake......................Think about it like this - everyone is full of sh*t,........most people have about 5 feet of it inside their body cavity......so we wear ours on the outside, however I only carry about 5 inches.....so which one of us is really full of it.....good luck